An attempt to converse

on Indian politics

(certain chunks of this chat are removed)

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Me

what modi debate you are are doing?

Xyz

listen his thobaad is everywhere

i want to puncture it

and all this middle class development morality

is fuelling his rise to pmship

ill be so ashamed if he becomes pm

Me

what is wrong in the middleclass development morality_

Xyz

its like citispace

doesn’t give a fuck about anything else but itself

Me

how is the situation any better now

'better' for the lack of a better word

may be - different

no basically i am just trying to understand

i am too bad at politics anyway

and i think its high time i educated myself

so asking...

Xyz

i dont care if it gets better

i have a moral problem with fascist hindu politics getting the upper hand

i would be ashamed of a country in which the majority voted for that

and believed in that

Me

u think hindu is being linked to some kind of developmental idea?

i dont think modi ever brings 'hindu' in his speeches - atleast the ones i have seen

Xyz

nope

i think being hindu is being linked to

being indian

well you should see the billboards all over the city

claiming that he is a hindu nationalist

he did an interview on a tv channel also which got facebooked a lot by his fans who lauded his "guts" at saying that

Me

but what happened to the whole debate on corruption?

accountability?

and blah

Xyz

i find all that very annoying

Me

i mean modi's speeches seem pretty rational

Xyz

yes of course

especially when he is talking about muslims

Me

:P

Xyz

luckily i am not a court of law

i don’t have to believe he is innocent because no one could prove that he was not involved in the massacre of muslims

the inventions of muslims as a race

as number one enemy

to rouse stupid chauvanistic sentiment

Me

yeah - that is a bit scary to think of

Xyz

the development - just look at sabarmati- bimals project

cited as a showpiece project

which is a bullshit project

lapped up by architects urban designers as a visionary project

which takes the water from the sardar sarovar to make a naturally perennial river into a waterfront for real estate development

that doesnt allow farmers on the edge to draw water from it even

Me

hmm - i didnt know about htat

but then, what is development after all?

and do we even need development?

Xyz

that is the best question

Me

because it is always going to be political

Me

it involves money and resources and big people and will

Xyz

this development rhetoric completely ignores all the other infill-healing type things we need

small things

Me

you think development is an induced desire?

or it is an acquired one?

Xyz

i think its one of your blindness things

same idea

what do you think

Me

well, i would like for everyone to have some basic infrastructure

i feel horrible when i read about lakhs of crores of rupees pocketed by some greedy idiots

Xyz

problem is the image of development

is not skywalks- sardar sarovar

etc

Xyz

there are so many statistics to prove all gujrat development is also a huge pr game

where bihar and other states do well on other indexes

Xyz

he is a chauvinistic hindutva promoter

what will happen to us as a nation

Xyz

the sabarmati project is one of the sickest projects ever

but people would call it development

please

i am an atheist

i can tolerate someone being religious

but to say India is a Hindu nation is disgustingly chauvinistic

and what is this hundutva that the bjp promotes

what will be the message to muslims

Xyz

and you have to see the new billboards all over the city

you havent heard him talk about muslims and family planning

or relief camps?

do a search for huindu nationalist

the problem is that all hindus cannot see that their claim to the nations identity can be very othering

that scares me

Me

othering to non-hindus?

Xyz

of course

Xyz

i really believe he is a murderer of muslims

if you hear the stories of what happened at cept

and the terror of it

and his smugness just angers me

Me

any record?

Xyz

everywhere

ask *** how he hid and trembled

ask *** how he was afraid to move to ahmedabad after he married a hindu girl

Me

hmm - that scares me

Xyz

it scares me too

and i love how all my hindu chauvinist friends who argue rationality can brand muslims as a race belive the constructed history of difference and conquest

can believe in bloated images of development and cannot see what muslims will feel

if we all put our votes to vote in a bigot

what it means to vote for a fascist

because we want a "clean slate"

STATE

sorry

like hitler

india will rise

under a fascist

kind of idea

Me

you think history like such repeats?

or would it if modi came?

Xyz

if modi came to power it would prove that we think of ourselves a a hindu state

and that is a crime

when the same people cry about islamic states

Me

but thats too metaphorical to claim

Xyz

no its not

it is the first thing

the development argument is just eyewash

Me

would hinduism intensify if modi came to power

Xyz

no it would just get its justification-

Me

ah i see - you mean to say his agenda is to "clean" the sate?

state*

his underlying agenda that is

Xyz

all his claims are like his pr agency's claim that he went and rescued 15000 pilgrims in a day

hilarious

Me

why didnt other states help then?

Xyz

please

is this an interstate competition?

Me

exactly - its not a competition

its about just caring for a single cause

why were resources not pooled togehter?

Xyz

so what

Me

well i feel not coming together in times of crisis is more political

more petty

was that not a massacre?

Xyz

we can go on about other parties and how states and how bad they are or were

no it was not a massacre

Me

no i am just trying to take a current example

Xyz

please do Not compare it to what happened in Gujarat

its not so trivial

Me

i thought it was pretty logical for all states to come together in this crisis

Xyz

the massacre happened at several levels

the entire development argument that states and the centre make are weird

Me

if massacre leads to death of people as an end result, then pretty much

Xyz

no

murder

and negligence are two entirely different things

states may not know better

and states may know better

Me

when you know people are dying and still not save them, it is almost as good as that

Xyz

the displacements of the sabarmati no one talks about in the name of development

Me

ah - is the pain from death by negligence different from that of murder

Xyz

just as no one talks about the hydel projects in uttarakhand

yes it is

if someone comes after you maliciously

to kill your kin

to kill, you

because of your religion

it is much more painful

it causes a historic scar

that your ineptitude to save people

Me

hmm

worthwhile thinking

Xyz

chl anyways

i sleep now

Me

hehe

Xyz

lock up the grills 

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I request my co-chatter to contact me in case one finds this objectionable.
The above is only a record for the fact that - I learnt.